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Considering HIFU

User
Posted 10 Nov 2021 at 00:24

Glad to hear you've had you treatment, and that it has been reasonably easy so far, let's hope it continues that way. Obviously don't push things, but let us know how quickly you recover.

Dave

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 18:39

I had RALP two weeks ago. It went well and margins were clear but I am still in the 'wet stage' of course. HIFU was mentioned to me only as a salvage procedure, if necessary. But I confess that now I wish I had researched it myself. Following a TURP in 2017, I was diagnosed G3+3 in just 1% of cores tested. Last year, my PSA rose and I had a perineal biopsy. This showed that my PCa had increased to G3+4 in 75% of 20 cores taken from a around my prostate. A fair increase. Does anyone know if HIFU may have been a feasible option, or should I stop kicking myself for not exploring the option before RALP? 

 

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 19:44
I guess that is a medical question but I was 3+4 with it sufficiently localised for HIFU. I am 2 1/2 weeks post op. Catheter out and more or less normal activity now . Good control and flow now more or less normal and no pain, Obviously will be a month or two before we know results.
User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 19:47

I think HIFU works on small tumours, if 75%of cores have cancer it probably wasn't suitable. 

Dave

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 20:14

Thanks Dave and Chris. And Chris, pleased you are doing well. I am 74, slim and fit. Was told that usually, cut off age for RALP is 75. Was also told that post RT or HIFU, salvage surgery, if required, can be problematic whereas salvage RT or HIFU after surgery is not compromised. My thinking and the reason I didn't research HIFU further was that, given my age, I wanted to minimise the possible need  for surgery when I may be too old. But I can't get rid of the nagging feeling I should have looked further into it and that I may end up an incontinent old man. 

 

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 20:36
HIFU is okay if you a) have enough data to be confident that the affected area is very small, and b) have the resilience to be able to cope if the treatment fails. HIFU has a high recurrence rate in comparison to other primary treatments- the advantage being that it might be possible to have HIFU more than once.

Based on what you have said, it seems that HIFU would not have been a suitable option for you which is probably why you were steered away from it in the first place. With 15 positive cores, best place for your prostate is a petrie dish!

Try to look forward rather than back

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 20:36

Hi Peter,

 the short answer is- yes, stop kicking yourself! Like everyone else on here , you made your decision based on the best information you had at the time, and on a subjective assessment of the risks you were , and were not, prepared to take. There is no Sliding Doors option, whereby different choices get to be played out in parallel. So you will never know if there was a ' better ' course , and there is no upside to you now in wondering if there was. 

If you have ferreted around on this site and others, you will see that there is no 'best' solution, and no 'wrong' one. They all offer shades of advantage and disadvantage. Having made a choice,  the one thing you can control now is your attitude to it. Be at peace with your decision.  

 

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 20:46

Thank you Lyn. For me, that was a very reassuring and  uplifting response. And no, I don't think I have the resilience to cope with a recurrence. So, minimising the chance of one must have been the right choice.

I'll put my concerns to bed now. 

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 22:19
👍
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 21 Nov 2021 at 22:21

"They all offer shades of advantage and disadvantage. Having made a choice, the one thing you can control now is your attitude to it. Be at peace with your decision."

Shades of advantage and disadvantage.... I love that, olefogey

Edited by member 21 Nov 2021 at 22:22  | Reason: Italics

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 22 Nov 2021 at 08:33

Thanks Olefogey

User
Posted 25 Nov 2021 at 20:26
Hope you don't mind me joining this thread. I'm 57yo fit & healthy, just been diagnosed, Gleason 3+4, in 6 out of 14 biopsy samples. MRI shows it is contained, small tumour on the right side. NHS recommending surgery (radical prostatectomy), or second option of radio + hormone therapy. Not offering HIFU or Cryo

I'm just wondering if I should look into HIFU or Cryo (maybe private or trial), is it likely to be suitable, or am I just delaying things and best to crack on with surgery while cancer is still contained?

Obviously a bit of a shock to lose my prostate at 57 years old, but if that is the safest/best option then I can live with it. But I don't want to find out later, after it has been removed, that I could have kept it...

All thoughts welcome :-)

User
Posted 25 Nov 2021 at 21:08

It might be worth asking if they considered it and asking why not suitable then at least you will feel happy that you have covered all the bases as it were.

 

I am Gleason 3+4 and my cancer was reasonably well concentrated from looking at the MRI.  As it was an option , for me, as an active person the after effects were much less than anything more radical which I can still have later if required.

 

Obviously too early to see how effective it has been but recovery is very good in my case. So really we are all different but it would be nice to know it has been considered and medically rejected rather than a post code lottery.

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 00:42

So I am almost certain to now have HIFU next month as after AS for 2 years my PSA doubled to over 8 in 4 months about 20 month stable . Left smallish lesion around 8mm with 3+4 and less than 10% position also another 5 mm but no positive cores. I am 71 with other health issues from polio as a kid so most other treatments are likely to have not good effects on me.

Somewhat anxious but it’s obviously not going away and my logic was less side effect chance, can repeat possibly down the line if needed and all other options not that great for me.

I think that looking at the research across the globe HiFU isn’t that  new and there are quite a lot of research reports and it is slightly less effective in preventing recurrence down the line it’s a good first option for low to intermediate localised PCa. I also think the expert use of MpMRI just before the procedure and a urologist who is expert and done a lot of them makes for a better outcome maybe than the ‘average’ especially in earlier studies.

Let’s hope I manage the GA as I have some breathing issues but that’s my main issue as I take the plunge in a few weeks !

Edited by member 26 Nov 2021 at 00:45  | Reason: Typos

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 02:11
Good luck Nomis - I look forward to your report after the event.

Benchmark, apart from exceptions like Nomis, choices of treatment could be summarised as:

HIFU v active surveillance - for men with very early, low grade cancer, T1

RP v RT (with or without HT) v low dose brachytherapy - medium risk cancer, G7 & G8, T2

RP v RT/HT v high dose brachytherapy v high dose brachy + RT/HT - high risk, G9 or G10, T3

Up front chemo, HT, apalutimide, enzalutimide, etc - advanced / metastatic cancer

Cryotherapy / green light laser therapy / proton beam therapy - gamblers and those who would not be distressed or bankrupted by a recurrence.

These are a little simplistic - for example, some men diagnosed with T3 are now offered pre-emptive chemo when they never would have been 5 years ago. And some men with T3b/T4 are offered radical treatments even though they are incurable - doctors want to know whether removing the gland slows down the progression. But HIFU is not generally an option to be compared & contrasted with RP / RT - the outcome is significantly poorer in terms of recurrence.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 07:30

Best of luck with the HIFU.

Having read tons of stuff I could see nothing to suggest HIFU was significantly poorer in recurrence but maybe there are other sources I have not read.

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 11:23
Hi Nomis & Benchmark

Although like you a G7, we are all different, even age considerations. I can only say that 14 months after my HIFU I have no symptoms and my PSA is now below 1.

Good luck.

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 11:26

Thanks LynEyre, much appreciated

I think I'm T2, will check.

I suspect RP is best for me, think I'm going to tell NHS to go ahead with that, 6-8week wait, but in meantime get private consultation on viability of HIFU

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 12:20
That seems a very sensible plan
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 26 Nov 2021 at 15:54

Oh that's a bit of a b****r. With my wonky bowel configuration I was kind of hoping proton beam might be more of a get-out-of-jail-free card, rather than a punt on the gee-gees 😄

 

 
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