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Factors impacting treatment decision making and decision regret. 🤔

User
Posted 30 Jun 2025 at 11:49

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
An MDT is far less emotionally involved in your case than you are, if they make a recommendation it is far more likely to be influenced by logic than any decision that you make can be.

My decision making was also affected by my lack of faith in one NHS Trusts. During my diagnosis and active surveillance, they'd made some quite serious mistakes.

To have robotic surgery, they had to pass me on to another neighbouring Trust.  At this time the communications between the two Trusts completely broke down. I was seen one day, by a surgeon from one Trust who said surgery was fine. Then about a week later I was told by the other Trust's MDT that radiotherapy/HT was recommended. At this time the MDT didn't even know that I'd be seen by the surgeon and that he'd put me on his waiting list. In fact, the initial Trust had booked me in for another follow up prostate MRI on a date after my scheduled RARP. They'd have got a shock when they couldn't find one. 😂

Dave, I understand the anology of attacking the cancer with knives and electing surgery.  A lot of men, because it seems a bit more macho,  have the attitude of "Lets kill it! Lets get it cut out!"

It's a bit like slaying a mythical monster with a single blow of a sword, rather than visiting it 35 times and just causing a bit of damage until it snuffs it. 

Edited by member 30 Jun 2025 at 12:18  | Reason: Additional text

User
Posted 20 Jul 2025 at 15:58

Fantastic thread, thanks for starting Adrian.

Looking back at my diagnosis 18 months ago G9 with local spread lymph and bone, my treatment decisions were probably impacted by my delayed diagnosis in Primary care. At only 44 prostate cancer was absolutely not a differential for my newly qualified GP. Even with my Dad having had it. He decided against PSA and diagnosed an enlarged prostate. 7 months later after private diagnostics I got the unfortunate news. Inoperable and incurable but with treatment options to extend life 3-5 years. I’m not bitter as with the LUTs I had it already would have been advanced with spread but I think it subconsciously impacted my trust in the NHS.

I have received fantastic care since in the NHS but have advocated for my care. My NHS Onco was a trainee and offered radiotherapy as the first treatment. I declined having done plenty of research and asked for front loaded chemo and then RT. I’d seen the videos on the heterogeneity of the cancer clones and needing to whack it with lots of different treatments types to kill as much of it as possible. They agreed to it. I got a second opinion from the Royal Marsden on the RT to advocate for RT to zap all the met sites including the prostate. Only the prostate was offered initially by the NHS. They agreed to this as well.

With me having a good outcome to date with the above treatment decisions PSA down from 32 to <0.05, I’m naturally happy with the choices. The choice about hanging fire on adding in a 2nd gen hormone I just play around in my head from time to time. The jury’s out on that part of the decision process. Keeping something in reserve in case the Prostap fails is the thinking.

Doing loads of research from reputable sources is key, talking friends and family and the Oncology medical team as well. 

Edited by member 20 Jul 2025 at 15:59  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 21 Jul 2025 at 13:22

Hi Adrian,

I was lucky my diagnosis was picked up early with a private medical .

PSA 2.19,

Gleason 3+4=7

T2 NO MO and could not have asked for better treatment at the Lister in Stevenage. after diagnosis i was given a load of leaflets after all the different scans to see if it had spread i was offered Robotic surgery or Brachytherapy.

The most noticeable thing was that the  first surgeon i spoke to seemed to presume that i would take the Robotic removal route and started going into the procedure before i picked him up and asked about Brachytherapy. He said ok there was a Brachytherapy specialist at the hospital and i could go and see him then come back to him which i found very strange . I had a meeting with the Brachytherapy Specialist and on reading my notes said he     could not see any reason why brachytherapy would not be just as good as robotic surgery but i would have to travel to Mont Vernon for him to operate .

I did read up on all the pros and cons and had by that time joined this group for more information and some great help from the troops in the field so to speak.I was never happy with the going under the knife version and the possible side affects.The only other reason i took the Brachytherapy route was a good friend had had Brachytherapy a couple of years before and being self-employed like myself needed  maybe easier recovery.

  Unfortunately my friend died of a heart attack while on holiday so we will never know the out come.

Was i worried if i had make the right decision at the time ,yes i did think about it till after the Brachytherapy

John.

 

Edited by member 22 Jul 2025 at 11:03  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 21 Jul 2025 at 14:21

I initially wanted it removed, but that was from a position of naivety. My diagnosis took a long time (~5 months) because various test results didn't agree. I knew early on I had prostate cancer (PSA 58), but getting the Gleason score and staging proved more difficult that usual, and hence what treatments were appropriate was not known for some time. Besides having lots of consultations during that time, it also gave me plenty of time to read around the topic. Being a developer/researcher anyway (albeit in a completely different field) I was already well used to reading research papers, so I turned my attention to reading research papers on prostate cancer, the treatments, and the side effects. My work colleagues told me afterwards I treated it like a new work project to be designed, and to some extent, that was probably my way of staying in control of it. I was in a fortunate position that I could stop working to spend more time on this.

The hospital had noted my preference was prostatectomy, and they mentioned that treatment each time I had a consultation, but they were warning me there would probably be no nerve sparing, and there was >50% chance of recurrence, so why not go directly to radiotherapy. I had already decided this, based on the no nerve sparing and >50% chance of recurrence. So after all the scans, I was passed to oncology.

I was lucky that my oncologist is a researcher too, and appreciative of someone who had read around the subject. We talked about trials, things like PSA level to aim for pre-radiotherapy, and others. I opted for a treatment he'd been doing for years (HDR Boost), which is a good combination of high dose into the known cancer, plus spillage over the area where micro-mets might be, but a relatively low side-effect profile considering. I opted to deliberately spill the radiotherapy wider to cover all my pelvic lymph nodes. He was happy for me to modify my treatment protocol, saying I knew enough about it to make those sorts of decisions, but I did very much ask for his advice too.

Looking back, I'm very pleased with my choice. I have subsequently learned more that reinforced my treatment decision. I put in some effort learning how to minimise or avoid side effects. Possibly partly due to that, and partly luck, I have come away with almost no side effects. A couple of years after the treatment, I said to my oncologist I almost wouldn't know anything had been done. I am now 6 years after treatment and 7 years after the initial PSA test which kicked all this off. If I hadn't done that charity PSA test, I would be metastatic by now and probably starting to get symptoms, so I do consider myself very lucky.

User
Posted 21 Jul 2025 at 16:27

I agree that some men are predisposed to a particular treatment and then sort of use various factors to substantiate that view, perhaps not giving due weight to alternatives. There are other men that learn that I friend or relative had a particular form of treatment and did well with it so think they will opt for the same. This actually happened where a good friend of mine had a rising PSA and he said to me "I will have the same treatment as you in the same hospital if I need treatment". (This was when my early treatment looked to have been successful). I had to explain to him it was far more complicated than that and you had to be a suitable candidate and like me you would have to meet the criteria of the trial I was in. It's not just a question of 'what is the best treatment', but 'what is the best treatment for you as an individual, in your circumstances and with your preferences which also takes into account potential side effects and practical considerations'. As it transpired, my friend's PSA rose to and hovered just below 10. He was diagnosed with PIN that didn't develop further, so never needed treatment. I think he was about 85 or 86 when he died from non cancer related illness.

I do believe that men who have a better understanding of the disease and it's treatments through research and open minded discussion with Urologists and Oncologists treatment for them as individuals are less likely to regret their treatment decisions. Looked at from the human nature aspect, if you have an active participating part in making your decision you are less likely to regret it if it doesn't go well as people don't readily like admitting having made poor choices. It is going to be much easier to blame the surgeon, radiologist or whoever where the patient has gone along with what was suggested and consequently regretted their treatment.

Edited by member 21 Jul 2025 at 16:29  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 21 Jul 2025 at 18:49

Dear all, 

I was only given the option of RALP as I’d had Inflammatory Bowel Disease 30 years ago (now in remission).

I also have diverticular disease, which the CT scan during initial Pca diagnosis, noted as also “quiscent” or in remission. I do have some mild IBS symptoms from time to time and anxiety does cause me IBS and other digestive issues such as gastritis etc. I’m on the 2 yearly bowel cancer follow up and got an all clear on this the day before my Pca diagnosis!!

My surgeon was extra cautious in the knowledge that SRT for me could be a big long term problem which I’m extremely grateful for.

My question is I’m told that diverticular disease is quite common as we get older but I do not see it mentioned that often on this site. I’m also interested if any members of the forum are aware of the incidence rates of bowel cancer after Pca RT or SRT. I hope it’s never a problem I have to face and, if I do, I’d obviously have to weigh up something that has happened compared to something that might happen in the future. 

User
Posted 22 Jul 2025 at 07:01

 I was diagnosed as T3a Gleason 7 (3+4). I was given the option of surgery or RT. I also asked what about just doing nothing and letting it run its course, their guesstimate was survival of about 15 years so early 70s. AS wasn't really discussed which I thought was probably because it was T3a, but I guess the 15 years had already frightened me.
I chose surgery as I felt I just wanted it out of my body and if it came back I'd have another backup option of RT. Anyway had the surgery April 2024, surgeon said he thinks he got it all, lynph nodes and nerves taken and no sign in those so all good. Undetectable PSA for 8 months then it started to rise. PSA monitored for a further 6 months and still rising. I had read up and knew there was about a 30% chance of reoccurrence after surgery but to be honest i thought it may be a fair few years down the line, not months.
So PSMA PET scan this Wednesday but they've said RT and hormone treatment is going to be needed.
I wish there was a clear cut route through all this for everyone but there just isn't. Different ages, fitness, surgeons, mental health, etc I think there's so many factors that can have an effect. 
Do I have any regrets over the decision for surgery? May be!, it all feels like starting the process from scratch again now, has the last 18 months been wasted, back to square one!! I guess there's less cancer to kill off now which may be an advantage.
May be my plan of a back up, second shot at it has worked, who knows. 
At original diagnosis do we have the capacity to stand back and think clearly about the options? Diagnosis comes as a shock and turns our worlds upside-down in a split second in that appointment room. Are we really in the right mental capacity in the weeks that follow to make the decision,  who knows.

User
Posted 22 Jul 2025 at 10:58

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I wish there was a clear cut route through all this for everyone but there just isn't. Different ages, fitness, surgeons, mental health, etc I think there's so many factors that can have an effect. 

Hi Neil.

I agree entirely, there are so many variables in play. I now know the importance of getting a good surgeon. I don't know if radiotherapy is so reliant on the expertise of the operator doing the zapping?

I assume surgeons have to meet certain standards and have to keep themselves updated. However, like all professions, I suppose that there are those who are exceptional and those who are very poor and that the majority are somewhere in between.

I'm sorry to hear that you've got BCR, it's something I still dread. 

Good luck tomorrow with your scan, and any further treatment deemed necessary, mate.👍

Edited by member 22 Jul 2025 at 11:02  | Reason: Typo.

 
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