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Bladder Pain and belly button

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User
Posted 19 Mar 2022 at 12:28

Hi all

I am a fairly new member, I have posted in the welcome section. I am trying to gain some information, as my father had prostrate cancer (had it removed) 10 years ago all ok, but I’ve been having some symptoms myself, I am late 40's and never had any water works issues until now. I particularly don’t want to ask my father, as prefer not to unsettle him, this is my story so far. Apologies for the too much information!

In the last 6 weeks I had a dribbling issue, like after I stopped urinating I discovered afterwards I wetted myself, I didn’t think much of it at the time. The urine flow and pressure was good.

About 14 days ago, I started getting a dull ache feeling around my belly button and gentiles base of my penis & pain radiating about 3 inches diagonally up left (as you look at me) my right, when pressing. My testicles seemed very tender, as well. I had trouble starting to urinate and been going to the toilet much more often, like every hour. The pain is fluctuating, better when get up in the morning and throughout the day can get worse.

I did a GP phone call, suspected UTI and placed me on 7 day course of Macrobid (Nitrofurantoin). I completed that course didn’t do anything. I went back to the GP, I got the rectal finger examination and my urine on the dip test (done in the surgery) flagged infection, she said my prostrate seemed little inflamed. I was placed on 7 days of Ciprofloxacin, with a review in weeks time. Cipro kicked in, the burning peeing has gone and frequency of going to pee improved by day 3, I thought maybe improving.

I saw the GP after 7 days on Cipro, issued another week supply, (stated 2 weeks is the NHS guideline maximum for Cipro). She said my urine lab test stated no bacterial growth. The GP stated once I finish the Cipro, they want to take bloods and another inspection of the prostate, which seems to be the main focus, as concerned why this has happened in the first place.

I am on day 9 of Cipro, I am now getting the dull ache pain in lower abdomen again, like it’s wanting me to pee again, it gets worse when the bladder fills up, which has now made me anxious somewhat, as I thought I was on the road to recovery.

If the Cipro doesn’t work, does this sounds like prostate? I wonder what next investigations are, needless to say I am anxious about all of the above

Thanks for reading

User
Posted 19 Mar 2022 at 17:06
People in their 40s can get prostate cancer, but prostate cancer doesn't have any symptoms. It does sound like a UTI. Certainly nothing to worry about.

All the best,

Chris

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 15:01

Sorry to hear that you are still having problems.

 

The trouble when you experience pain in an area of your body your mind goes into overdrive and you start thinking, especially if you have googled the symptoms, that you have a wide range of ailments. Often there is nothing seriously wrong but, that said, it is worth getting checked out, which is what you have done. Though your PSA score of 3.70 (mine was 3.58 at age 60) is higher than it should be at your age and the fact your father has had prostate cancer could be indicators that you also have it (Research suggests that 1 in 5 men over 40 have signs of prostate cancer and that most men over 60 have it), the fact is that an elevated PSA reading could be be caused by something else. If I had the same symptoms as you I would certainly want to find out what was causing the elevated reading (if the PSA reading moves up and down that is usually a sign that an infection is the cause rather than prostate cancer) and if I could not get an answer from the NHS would certainly go private.

 

Ivan 

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 16:20

 I can't see how a finger test could ascertain that the prostate was inflamed (unless it felt hot to the touch) without it also being  irregular in shape. So, as you say, inconclusive.

This is not not medically correct, but knowing what I now know about prostate cancer I would have pushed for further action back in 2018 when my PSA reading was 3.58 (Any reading over 4 is deemed to be suspect and any reading over 10 suggests a very good likelihood of prostate cancer). As it turned out, 3 years on from 2018 my PSA had increased to 5.32 and when it was again tested a month later it had increased to 5.76. I was then given MRI scans and biopsies and that subsequently led to me being diagnosed with prostate cancer and with my prostate being removed. Because prostate cancer is usually very slow growing ( a single slow growing prostate cancer cell can take over 400 days to form, meaning that a 1 cm prostate cancer tumour could be 40 years old) there is usually not any urgent need to take action but, that said, there is a need to determine what is actually going on.

Hopefully, the private route may find the cause of your issues and will then enable you to decide on how best to proceed.

 

Ivan

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 19:32
You have had a PSA test over 3.1 which means you should be referred to hospital urology department for MRI and possible biopsy. However, because you have a suspected infection, that might not happen until you have done a proper stint with antibiotics and then a new PSA test. I am not really sure ehy your GP hasn't already referred you to urology since they are also the people best placed to identify whether you do actually have prostatitis.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 20:35

If I was in your shoes, Nesty, especially because your father was treated for prostate cancer, I would be certainly be knocking on all the NHS doors to get action and if that failed would go private.  You don't want to look back and wish you had done this or that.

 

Ivan   

User
Posted 06 Aug 2022 at 13:08

That's good to hear.

I would suggest you ask for annual PSA tests and make a record of them.

PSA tends to rise slowly with age, but if you get a more significant rise, that should be a red flag to be referred back for more tests.

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User
Posted 19 Mar 2022 at 13:54

Yes, could be UTI or prostatitis. Some other members here will be able to talk about antibiotics etc. I'm just posting to reassure you that this is unlikely to be prostate cancer. Yes it can happen to people in their late 40s (though I was only four years older than you at diagnosis), but usually PC doesn't have symptoms until advanced and then the symptoms are usually not near the prostate. 

A PSA test would be meaningless at the moment as your prostate is probably inflamed. When this is cleared up then some investigation to check for cancer is worth pursuing just in case.

Dave

User
Posted 19 Mar 2022 at 15:48

Cheers Dave many thanks. I was wondering about if I was too young for the big C.

Though, information on prostatitis, doesn't make good reading on the treatment plan success. I am not having too many issues on Ciprofloxacin and willing to give it a fair go, if it solves the issue. I think it's the scenario, that it won't go away, which is frightening me. 🙁

User
Posted 19 Mar 2022 at 17:06
People in their 40s can get prostate cancer, but prostate cancer doesn't have any symptoms. It does sound like a UTI. Certainly nothing to worry about.

All the best,

Chris

User
Posted 19 Mar 2022 at 21:26

Hi.

I had several bouts of prostatitis in my 40's...lots if antibiotics...even went to cystoscopy and prostate massage....no infections were ever found and it just faded away after many months.

My symptoms were an ache...like having a golf ball up your bum....annoying but....not cancer.

I have (or had? Now I'm two weeks post RT) cancer....see my rather lengthy blog in my profile!

 

Steve

Blog: prostatecancer.vivatek.co.uk

User
Posted 20 Mar 2022 at 17:14

Many thanks for the replies all, from knowledgable members, really appreciate it.

I have a couple of questions, if I have Prostatitis, will a 2 weeks course of Cipro really do the trick? Also, if it's non bacterial, how is that treated, or is it a case of not? 

At work, until this episode I used to drink coffee, quite a bit maybe about 6 cups a day.  Is decaffienated coffee ok, or is it best to just steer clear? I am now starting to look back, what have I done, to of prevented this.

I am not really taking this episode very well at the moment, as today has been a bit uncomfortable. 

 

 

 

 

User
Posted 20 Mar 2022 at 18:06

Prostatitis can be difficult to treat, and part of that is getting referred to a urologist who knows how to treat it - it seems that few do. I guess you'll know if the Ciprofolxacin has worked a couple of weeks after it finishes. A side effect of Cipro can be tendon damage, so avoid stressing tendons while you're on it, and probably for a while afterwards.

If caffeine is causing you a problem, it will be urgency in the form of bladder irritation - the need to go without being able to hold on, and on going, you find you didn't actually have a full bladder anyway. If you don't have that symptom, caffeine is probably not causing you a problem. You can always try switching away from caffeine, but bare in mind you may get withdrawal symptoms.

 

User
Posted 20 Mar 2022 at 18:37

Hi Andy

Many thanks, I am so hoping this Cipro works. Ok thanks about watching the tendons, I don't do sports, but I do like walking. Does Cipro continue to work after I have stopped or does the body take on the baton to fight infection a bit afterwards? 

I am quite scared of this situation, as my stomach seems to hurt, which feels like I am not emptying my bladder. I am very anxious, it all just seemed to come on all so suddenly. 

 

 

 

User
Posted 20 Mar 2022 at 19:25

Most antibiotics are also anti-inflammatory and this can cause pain to go when you take them even if they don't kill bacteria causing it. So if the pain reappears shortly after finishing them, chances are it was the anti-inflammatory effect rather than the antibiotic effect that gave the short improvement.

User
Posted 20 Mar 2022 at 19:53

Hi Andy 

Ok many thanks for that, fingers crossed the Cipro works.

 

User
Posted 25 Mar 2022 at 09:07

I thought I’d post another update. I saw GP last Wednesday 23rd and re belly button pain GP ordered me an ultrasound for my bladder to see if filling / draining properly + maybe to see the prostrate as well. I have been placed on 2 more weeks of Ciprofloxacin, (which will take me to a month), seems like standard procedure. Though, I feel I am tolerating Cipro ok, my sleep getting worse, I am now having some right nasty nightmares, which I normally never have, (I never watch anything violent on TV), not sure if that is the Cipro? 

Though, my rectum examination showed tenderness and I finding it now difficult to poo though stools very hard (very unlike me), but could be due to my lack of eating (gone off food). I am considering a private prostrate clinic, (placed request on another thread on here), I know might be pricey, but I need to get to the bottom of this (excuse pun), to address if this is bacterial or not. I have never had any problems like this before, I am assuming its my first time and only have a certain amount of time to address, before it go chronic Bacterial, or doesn’t it work like that?

Edited by member 25 Mar 2022 at 09:20  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 10:20

I thought I’d post another update, to my situation, as looking for some support and guidance, apologises it’s long, as I am feeling a bit alone and down about all of this. I am having trouble sleeping and I am supposedly back at work on Monday, I am just wondering how all this going to go in the long run.

Last weekend my stomach pains got worse, I decided to go to A&E, I spent 4 nights in hospital. I had a CT scan done and only thing which came up was constipation, they gave me an enema, which really made me poo in one go, though it did slightly ease things, for a day or then the cramps came back, mainly along the bottom intestine. I also noticed I found it more uncomfortable to sit, like something stuck up my bum and this is placing pressure on my stomach IE tensing, I can’t recall having this beforehand.

When discharged, I had a chat with a GP (at my surgery I seem to talk to a different GP everytime), the results of my blood test came back PSA came back at 3.70, she said it was alleviated for my 49 age. though at this time I was on Ciprofloxacin, she said re-test in 6 weeks when finish the Ciprofloxacin, (though I have decided to halt it for the time being, I didn’t tell the GP this), because no infection has been actually identified, though this is the first GP which mentioned could be Prostatitis, then added no STD testing been done, (though I’ve not been active in that department for a long while), the GP said it could been from years ago & not ruling out an STD infection. It seems that the NHS route is doing me trial and error, I feel it’s not going to give me the answers I feel here.

A member on this forum they issued me details of a Private clinic that specialises in solely Prostrate issues, which helped him, I have decided to go down this route, my view you can’t place money on your health. It is really affecting my life now, as I have only been symptomatic for a month, I am hoping that if an infection, it will have a greater chance to treat, if I get early answers.

Thank you for reading and your support and naturally any advice be greatly appreciated, as this seems to placed a wrecking ball through my life at the moment.

 

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 15:01

Sorry to hear that you are still having problems.

 

The trouble when you experience pain in an area of your body your mind goes into overdrive and you start thinking, especially if you have googled the symptoms, that you have a wide range of ailments. Often there is nothing seriously wrong but, that said, it is worth getting checked out, which is what you have done. Though your PSA score of 3.70 (mine was 3.58 at age 60) is higher than it should be at your age and the fact your father has had prostate cancer could be indicators that you also have it (Research suggests that 1 in 5 men over 40 have signs of prostate cancer and that most men over 60 have it), the fact is that an elevated PSA reading could be be caused by something else. If I had the same symptoms as you I would certainly want to find out what was causing the elevated reading (if the PSA reading moves up and down that is usually a sign that an infection is the cause rather than prostate cancer) and if I could not get an answer from the NHS would certainly go private.

 

Ivan 

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 15:35

Many thanks for your reply. 

Yes, I think my body is certainly in hyperdrive at the moment. The thing is at first, I did have UTI symptoms, painful peeing and having to keep going to the toilet nearly every hour, but they have gone after 4/5 days on Cipro. Though the stomach cramps remain (but some slight improvement on them), but the ED very much there, I have never had ED before, it just feels like that department is dead, (though understand stress can do that), that too has upset me, even though I am not active in that way.

Though, I do require answers promptly and the private route is open to me, I feel I have to find out if I do have an infection, I am not taking anymore antibiotics for the sake of it anymore. 

Thank you for the information on the PSA. Unfortunately this was my first PSA test, so I haven't got a reference marker from a previous time. 

Edited by member 02 Apr 2022 at 15:39  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 15:49

Yes, stress is more likely to be the cause of your ED rather than prostate cancer- which usually has no side effects until your PSA reading is in the 1000's (Bob Monkhouse's PSA was over 1300 when he was diagnosed in 2002 and readings over 12000 are not unknown).

As a matter of interest have you had a finger up your bottom to feel your prostate?

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 15:59

Re the finger examination, only once to the prostate, the GP at the time (about 3 weeks ago) said it was slightly inflamed during the examination, though I spoke to a GP this week (informing me of PSA results), who reading my medical records said to me inspection stated smooth.

I am no more the wiser on that one, though TBH I probably could do with another inspection there. 

Though TBH is it plausible this could be major stress and the PSA is high because I was on Ciprofloxacin at the time?  

Edited by member 02 Apr 2022 at 16:25  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 16:20

 I can't see how a finger test could ascertain that the prostate was inflamed (unless it felt hot to the touch) without it also being  irregular in shape. So, as you say, inconclusive.

This is not not medically correct, but knowing what I now know about prostate cancer I would have pushed for further action back in 2018 when my PSA reading was 3.58 (Any reading over 4 is deemed to be suspect and any reading over 10 suggests a very good likelihood of prostate cancer). As it turned out, 3 years on from 2018 my PSA had increased to 5.32 and when it was again tested a month later it had increased to 5.76. I was then given MRI scans and biopsies and that subsequently led to me being diagnosed with prostate cancer and with my prostate being removed. Because prostate cancer is usually very slow growing ( a single slow growing prostate cancer cell can take over 400 days to form, meaning that a 1 cm prostate cancer tumour could be 40 years old) there is usually not any urgent need to take action but, that said, there is a need to determine what is actually going on.

Hopefully, the private route may find the cause of your issues and will then enable you to decide on how best to proceed.

 

Ivan

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 16:31

Many thanks for your useful advice, I think I will have to go to this prostate specialist and get some answers once and for all, as I am sadly not getting anywhere fast on NHS.   

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 16:39

As you mentioned earlier, ones health is very important and it is not worth cutting corners trying to save a few pennies as far as health is concerned. I was fortunately treated very quickly on the NHS (Addenbrookes in fact), though was prepared to pay upwards of £20K for surgery if it appeared that delays in my treatment were likely.

 

Ivan

User
Posted 02 Apr 2022 at 16:47

I think with health that is sorely the case. You were dealt with well by the NHS. I am a firm believer in the NHS, but in this instance I am finding it very difficult to find anyone with knowledge on it and just seem to be passed around,  unfortunately I knew 2 close friends who no longer with us, were passed around in this way for something else, then when actually taken seriously by the NHS, the cancer was stage 4. 

I have a Daughter who needs me, so I will not take any chances with health. 

Edited by member 02 Apr 2022 at 16:49  | Reason: Not specified

 
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