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Prostate cancer return.

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 11:59

I thought I’d start a new post rather than adding to the old one. DH diagnosed 9 years ago age 57. Psa 3.7 3+3 He had brachytherapy. Over the next few years psa went as low as 0.03 after 5 years the psa started to creep up, slowly at first. The consultant said to get back in contact once it hit 2.1. So 3 months ago it was 2.9 (2.0 3 months before) DH had an MRI. Nothing showed. So he had psa pet scan. PSA result this Monday was 4.9. The consultant has phoned this morning. I didn’t listen to the conversation, but DH says the prostate cancer isn’t in his prostate and the treatment worked, however it is in his lymph nodes in his stomach and may have been there years. So, my question is, does this sound likely? Did DH listen properly?

The consultant is writing a letter to the gp and he’s to start zoladex injections soon. DH is convinced he’s only on them for one month. I had zoladex years ago and he knows how I suffered, though I think side effects may differ for woman, I put on over 2 stone in 5 months, I refused my 6 injection (I was only having it 6 months) I am sure it will be more that one month for the zoladex or even forever. Also he’s to be prescribed Cavadex. 
 
Once it’s in the lymph nodes I take it there is no cure, it is just hoped it shrinks down on hormones. 

I knew as soon as the psa started raising that it wasn’t good. But they didn’t want to do anything until it reached 2.1

Edited by member 05 Nov 2023 at 22:55  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 18:56

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Thanks for your helpful replies. I find the telephone conversations unhelpful as there will always be unanswered questions. We can’t both speak to the consultant and my husband doesn’t really ask questions. Let’s hope the follow is face to face. 

If you have a mobile phone you could use its “speaker” setting and both be able to hear and speak to the consultant if your next consultation is another telephone one.

Chris

 

User
Posted 29 Sep 2023 at 18:58
Quote:

Could the 1 month have been bicalutamide? I’m not sure if it works the same with zoladex but my husband is on decapeptyl and with this HT drug he was to have bicalutamide tablets 2 weeks before and after his first injection to prevent tumour flare. 

Hope everything works out well for your husband and he is able to have some targeted RT 

Elaine

 

Elaine you might be right  the tablets turned up in the post  casodex and bicalutamide are the same tablet  so maybe that for a month alongside zoladex  

 

User
Posted 01 Oct 2023 at 13:11

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

They may give him a date to start the casodex when they contact you about the injection.

Got everything crossed that it will go well 🀞🏼

 

Thanks Elaine. I have been reading about your husband. I hope his journey goes well. You are similar in that I am quite a bit younger than my husband. I am 15 years younger. 

User
Posted 05 Nov 2023 at 20:53
I would also go for a second opinion. Some oncologists will treat more aggressively than others. It can be that once in the lymphatic system even if treated it could emerge elsewhere but treatment could buy more time. The Royal Marsden are known to get a lot of requests for a second opinion although there are of course other hospitals and consultants that could be tried.
Barry
User
Posted 05 Nov 2023 at 21:45
I think that 'staging' is a confusing word. In prostate cancer, there is two kinds of staging - a man can be T2 or T3 but stage 4 .... in other words, the tumour hasn't burst out of his prostate but it has metastasised. The problem in your case seems to be that the onco hasn't communicated clearly - he appears to be treating this as a stage 4 metastatic cancer but hasn't said so in a straightforward way. There is a tiny possibility that he has started the HT with a view to radiotherapy or SABR or something in a few months time and, somehow, this has been missed in the conversations and letter.

The difficulty is with your OH not wanting to rock the boat or have you asking questions - I guess that it would not be easy for you to persuade him to ask for clarity from the onco or a second opinion from someone else even though that's what we all think is needed :-(

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 05 Nov 2023 at 21:50

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

DH thinks the consultant said he can’t have more radiotherapy as he’s had the maximum dose when he had brachytherapy. I understand he can’t have the prostate zapped again, but if the nodes are in his tummy then surely that is different. 

Lymph nodes in the tummy area would usually be considered relevant to maximum dose.  

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 06 Nov 2023 at 20:17

Wiosal, I started with surgery, followed by 66gys salvage RT to the prostate bed. Last year I had 40gys to a pelvic lymph node and this year had another 30 gys to another pelvic lymph node. 

More SABR treatment to additional pelvic tumors have not been ruled out. I moved from the NHS to private treatment because the NHS does have limitations on what they will treat. Without health insurance I wouldn't be having the treatment I am now having,far too expensive.

Hope you get some answers.

Thanks Chris 

User
Posted 07 Nov 2023 at 15:22
The clinical trials of up front Enza Abi etc have all demonstrated significant benefit to up front use.

Several men on here have had it as part of trials and as normal treatment now. My only caveat is I'm not sure they have demonstrated it in a salvage scenario like your DH.

All questions for the Onco I would suggest. If DH hates the idea of HT it is also an acceptable option to do nothing until he has symptoms, then throw the book at it! You will possibly be trading quality of life for quantity but that is DHs decision.

Having the node biopsied to prove it is PC and what Gleason it is would help that decision too. If it's still a 3+3 leaving it be might be a sensible option until it causes trouble.

User
Posted 08 Nov 2023 at 22:19
I don't think that there is a strong evidence base to suggest that BRCA2 stops HT from being effective or makes men more likely to be hormone-independent (castrate-resistant) earlier than others. However, when a BRCA2 man does become castrate-resistant, there is a second line HT treatment that only works for those men.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 27 Nov 2023 at 00:52
Men have fought for years for the right to have Abiraterone or Enzalutimide from the start, rather than later when the standard HT has begun to fail. Now research has shown that men live longer if they have abi / enza early and the price has dropped so it has been approved for this use. Your OH is being offered something that only 2 or 3 years ago, men with PCa could only dream of (unless they had unlimited amounts of money or a very generous health insurer). I guess the same applies to the newer drug, Apalutimide, as well but not so much to daralutimide.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 13 Feb 2024 at 22:07

I thought I’d do an update. Now that DH has been on enzalutamide for a few months and zoladex almost 4 months. He’s been quite tired on the drugs, he’s really slowed down on our dog walks, I used to struggle to keep up, but now we often have to stop for a rest. But he’s keeping up the walking, so that’s good. He’s been busy decorating too. The worst thing has been headaches, muzziness and sharp pains in the back of his head, the pains lasting only a few seconds each time, a couple of times a day, but still a bit worrying. At his nurse phone consultation she suggested stopping them for a week, that didn’t make any difference, after the week he was put on 3 tablets instead of 4. But still the same. The nurse did suggest trying a different drug, the one with the steroid, but dh says he doesn’t want steroids. But I’ve read if you are going to change drug, it has to be done in a certain time frame. So dh should probably think seriously about it. I have read enza is the better drug though.

Dh didn’t have any hot flushes at all just on zoladex, but does now they’ve added enza. I’ve been joking about with him, as he makes such a fuss, I said it’s a bit like man flu. I know they aren’t nice and I shouldn’t joke, but he started it by saying “when you used to get hot flushes” I still do get them regularly, I just don’t tell everyone, strip off and have to stop whatever I’m doing like him. I’m only messing about with him, of course his situation is a lot worse. 

Dh had a diabetes and cholesterol test done recently as the drugs can cause diabetes and he was pre diabetic before, he is already on statins even though his cholesterol was never high, enza can stop the statins working. The blood sugar was high, well into the diabetes zone, but they said re test in 6 months and no treatment needed. Cholesterol was 5.01 which isn’t high, but the gp said to double the dose anyway. Not sure on the theory there.

PSA was less than 1.0 at the last test, he’s having it done again in a couple weeks, before the nurse consultation, plus other bloods to check he’s ok on the enza.

One thing…dh has had a bad back for years, it has got worse the last 2 or 3. Now he’s on HT his back has improved with little pain at all. I did have a thought that maybe he’d got mets in his spine, but surely they’d have been picked up on the psma scan, plus his back has been bad for such a long time it can’t be prostate cancer related as it would have been much worse after all this time. So no idea why the drugs are helping his back, but a good thing. 

The last thing to add, the lack of libido. It is so strange, I’ve had 29 years of him driving me mad in that department. A week without and he’d get bad tempered and moody. So now doesn’t get moody, the lack of testosterone certainly makes a difference there. It still feels really odd, the thought of him never really wanting me is still hard to take, of course life is more important though. If he puts his mind to it, he can still “perform” so I guess that is a plus too. Zoladex alone had no effect on libido, but he was only on it for a couple of months before enza was added. Maybe it wasn’t long enough. 

DH never had a face to face appointment with the consultant, that is a bit disappointing. Just the one phone call. Now he gets phone calls from the nurse. Next one end of Feb. I guess that’s all we will get as long as the drugs keep working. 

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User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 13:28
If it's just a couple of nodes and they are outside the original treatment area then YES they can be treated. You need to make sure you ask about this

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 13:55

Yes, it depends a bit on where they are, but if it's just a couple of lymph nodes, he should ask about having SABR (pinpoint external beam radiotherapy) on them. Not everywhere can do this, so it may need a referral or second opinion somewhere that does.

One month's Zoladex in total doesn't make any sense in the circumstances.

By the way, while Zoladex is 4-weekly for women, it's usually 12-weekly for men (higher dose), although the first implant may be a 4-weekly dose.

Edited by member 27 Sep 2023 at 13:58  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 14:14

Thanks for replies. DH said the lymph nodes just inside his belly button. He just had brachytherapy to the prostrate. No other treatment. I know he will be on zoladex longer, there’s little point in one injection. Interesting the man’s one lasts longer. I think I misspelled the other drug. I copied what DH had written down. Looking on google I think it’s casodex. I am assuming they can’t remove these nodes as it’s not been suggested. I have read both these drugs can cause diabetes. DH has been pre diabetic for several years. So this will need discussing too. I’m hoping there will be a face to face consultation at some point so I can ask questions. 

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 14:36

Wiosal, I had surgery in 2014  and salvage RT in 2017, my PSA then continued to slowly rise. Last year I had a PSMA scan and SABR treatment to a single pelvic lymph node. This year following a further rise in my PSA I had SABR treatment to another pelvic lymph node and started six months of bicalutamide.

You ask the question,once in the lymph nodes is it incurable,I hope not but bear in mind no two cases are the same. I will continue on a curable treatment path as long as my insurance company pays for it and until the oncologist calls time and suggests lifetime HT.

Thanks Chris 

 

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 17:34

Thanks for your helpful replies. I find the telephone conversations unhelpful as there will always be unanswered questions. We can’t both speak to the consultant and my husband doesn’t really ask questions. Let’s hope the follow is face to face. 

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 18:56

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

Thanks for your helpful replies. I find the telephone conversations unhelpful as there will always be unanswered questions. We can’t both speak to the consultant and my husband doesn’t really ask questions. Let’s hope the follow is face to face. 

If you have a mobile phone you could use its “speaker” setting and both be able to hear and speak to the consultant if your next consultation is another telephone one.

Chris

 

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 19:20

Thanks Chris. DH wouldn’t let me listen today. He said I’d talk, then he wouldn’t be able to hear and also thought I would interfere. So that was that. However he’s happy for me to be there face to face. 

User
Posted 27 Sep 2023 at 21:01

DH thinks the consultant said he can’t have more radiotherapy as he’s had the maximum dose when he had brachytherapy. I understand he can’t have the prostate zapped again, but if the nodes are in his tummy then surely that is different. 

User
Posted 28 Sep 2023 at 12:10
Yes, if it's to a different part of the body it should be ok.

Chris

User
Posted 28 Sep 2023 at 12:14

Yes thanks Chris. That’s what I thought. Dh left straight after the phone call as it was already planned to go and stay with his daughter for a few days. He hasn’t told her and isn’t planning to. But now he’s gone we can’t discuss it. But I keep wondering why radiotherapy or removal of the lymph nodes wasn’t suggested. It it is there and not in the prostate. Perhaps that is the next step after the hormone treatment. 

User
Posted 28 Sep 2023 at 12:25

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

The consultant is writing a letter to the gp and he’s to start zoladex injections soon. DH is convinced he’s only on them for one month. I had zoladex years ago and he knows how I suffered, though I think side effects may differ for woman, I put on over 2 stone in 5 months, I refused my 6 injection (I was only having it 6 months) I am sure it will be more that one month for the zoladex or even forever. 

Could the 1 month have been bicalutamide? I’m not sure if it works the same with zoladex but my husband is on decapeptyl and with this HT drug he was to have bicalutamide tablets 2 weeks before and after his first injection to prevent tumour flare. 

Hope everything works out well for your husband and he is able to have some targeted RT 

Elaine

 

User
Posted 28 Sep 2023 at 12:39

Hello Elaine. Thanks for reply. DH has written down Zoladex injection and Casadex tablets, he’s actually written cavadex but I think he must mean casadex as I can see that drug online. He’s to try it for a month and see how it goes, I think that means he will have  blood tests etc after a month. Not stop after a month. 

User
Posted 28 Sep 2023 at 13:08

Ah ok that’s good then. I would have liked my husbands first injection to be for less than 6 months but I forgot to say at the meeting and she had already prescribed the 6 month. Touch wood though he seems to be coping ok on the treatment ok. He’s had what he would say is a bit of a groin strain feeling so not sure if that’s the medication or cancer if the HT isn’t working 🀦🏻‍♀️ always something to worry about. Having some bloods next week so hopefully that will give us some info. 

Best of luck for when he starts the treatment, hopefully he won’t have any or many side effects x

User
Posted 29 Sep 2023 at 18:58
Quote:

Could the 1 month have been bicalutamide? I’m not sure if it works the same with zoladex but my husband is on decapeptyl and with this HT drug he was to have bicalutamide tablets 2 weeks before and after his first injection to prevent tumour flare. 

Hope everything works out well for your husband and he is able to have some targeted RT 

Elaine

 

Elaine you might be right  the tablets turned up in the post  casodex and bicalutamide are the same tablet  so maybe that for a month alongside zoladex  

 

User
Posted 29 Sep 2023 at 22:09

Ah Casodex is the brand name then….I should maybe have realised that as it would have had the name on Robs tablets.

That would make sense then. Obviously check with your doctor but rob has had them twice and was instructed to take them 2 weeks before his first injection and then to continue for 2 weeks after just to try and prevent tumour flare. Best of luck with them….I hate saying this but ‘touch wood’ Rob has been fine since starting HT…we will find out next week if it has been working 🀦🏻‍♀️

User
Posted 29 Sep 2023 at 22:28

Tablets came in the post with no instructions as to when to start them. They do say one a day. DH won’t start them until he’s phoned the hospital Monday. He’s dreading the side effects. As I said above I had zoladex for 5 months and couldn’t stand it, so refused the 6th. It was completely different for me though as they weren’t for cancer. The hot flushes and weight gain were the worst side effects. I remember feeling exhausted too as they simulate the menopause. That was 22 years ago. Now I’m early 50’s and have similar symptoms for real. Though I’d say hot flushes and weight gain were worse on zoladex. Let’s hope he’s not so bad as I was. 

I still can’t get my head round why no other treatment has been offered. If it is only in the lymph nodes and not his prostate surely it can be treated. DH said the consultant said he “can live with it in his nodes” Not sure if that means the hormones are to be taken forever or they’ll kill it (which I doubt) Or are there no treatments? Others on here have had the nodes zapped. I will have to wait for the next consultation as I have lots of questions. But it might be a while, it’s bound to be a telephone consult again too. 

User
Posted 29 Sep 2023 at 22:39

Has he got a date to go for his injection yet? I think it’s important to have certainly some of the tablets before the injection.

Rob has only ever had prostap and decapeptyl but he’s generally been ok on both so far 🀞🏼🀞🏼it’s early days though. The prostap felt worse but I think that was possibly because it was right at the diagnosis time and we were a bit all over the place anyway.

Sounds like you had a terrible time on it, these medications are always different for everyone so hope your husband will be ok.

I’ve got it all to come with the hot flushes, not looking forward to it 🀦🏻‍♀️

User
Posted 29 Sep 2023 at 23:17

No date for zoladex yet. The consultant is writing to the gp. We haven’t had a copy of the letter yet, so the surgery won’t have had one. I know it had to be ordered in when I had it. So it’ll be the same again. But they only needed a days notice. Hot flushes aren’t nice. I know not everyone has them. They were much more intense on zoladex than now. Not everyone has the weight gain either. 

User
Posted 30 Sep 2023 at 00:42

They may give him a date to start the casodex when they contact you about the injection.

Got everything crossed that it will go well 🀞🏼

 
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